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<div class="links"> '''Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ...:'''<br /> <span class="small">vserver development mailing list</span> <br /> [<nowiki/>[[../|Next/Previous Months]]] [<nowiki/>[http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/miscprj/s_context.hc Main vserver Project Homepage]] [<nowiki/>[http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/mlist/index.hc?list=vserver Howto Subscribe/Unsubscribe]] [<nowiki/>[http://www.paul.sladen.org/vserver/ Paul Sladen's vserver stuff]] </div> <div align="center"> {| class="wikitable" border="2" width="100%" |- ! [[../|About this list]] ! [[date.html|Date view]] ! [[index.html|Thread view]] ! [[subject.html|Subject view]] ! [[author.html|Author view]] ! [[attachment.html|Attachment view]] |} </div> '''From:''' Herbert Poetzl ([mailto:herbert_at_13thfloor.at?Subject=Re:%20%5BVserver%5D%20future%202.6%20development%20... ''herbert_at_13thfloor.at''])<br /> '''Date:''' Fri 30 Jan 2004 - 18:55:46 GMT * '''Previous message:''' [[0256.html|Berk Ülsoy: "[Vserver] debian kernel sources 2.4.24 - vs1.24 ??"]] * '''In reply to:''' [[0248.html|Igor Seletskiy: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] * '''Next in thread:''' [[0259.html|Igor Seletskiy: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] * '''Next in thread:''' [[0252.html|Alex Lyashkov: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] * '''Reply:''' [[0259.html|Igor Seletskiy: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] ----- On Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 07:07:31PM -0500, Igor Seletskiy wrote:<br /> ''> Hello Everyone,''<br /> ''>''<br /> ''> I will follow up and add some more info. Alexey Lyashkov was hired by''<br /> ''> Positive Software in 2002 to add enhancements and speed up development''<br /> ''> of vserver project (it was vserver back then). Several more developers''<br /> ''> where added at later stages. I was mostly interested in creating virtual''<br /> ''> server environment for hosting companies. As vserver development''<br /> ''> stopped, we decided to create our own branch (freeVPS).''<br /> ''> As the name says - it is free. As part of linux kernel - it is GPL (I''<br /> ''> don't think it is legal to produce any kind of patches to linux kernel''<br /> ''> under any different license). Also, with tools it is more complex - most''<br /> ''> of the tools are GPL as well. Only those tools that are unique to''<br /> ''> h-sphere to provision freeVPS are covered by commercial license.''<br /> ''> So, from the licensing standpoint - there should be any issues.''<br /> hmm, a freudian slip? well let's for now assume<br /> that there are no license issues involved and you<br /> provide a list (maybe on the web) of all sources<br /> covered by GPL and they are all which is required<br /> for FreeVPS to use it.<br /> ''> The reason redhat kernel was select - due to some back ports from 2.6 -''<br /> ''> like O(1) scheduler - that made it very convenient & easy to improve''<br /> ''> virtualization without sacrificing too much of the performance. Also,''<br /> ''> the fact that patches are for redhat kernel - doesn't reduce its ability''<br /> ''> to work on any other linux distro - it is still linux kernel.''<br /> sure, but I doubt that a RH 7.3 kernel (2.4.18.x.y)<br /> will be the first (or even second) choice of a debian,<br /> gentoo, suse or even mandrake person, so a vanilla<br /> kernel might be acceptable to some degree, but the<br /> ultimate goal should be a distro agnostic version.<br /> I have to admit, I didn't spend much time with freeVPS<br /> lately, so I don't know it's current status, and what<br /> the tool are capable of, and what not, maybe you could<br /> elaborate on that for a start ...<br /> ''> That is also why I think merge between linux-vserver & freeVPS makes''<br /> ''> sense. In 2.6 - we are going to go with standard kernel (as all the''<br /> ''> necessary pieces already there).''<br /> well, that is something we both have in common, and<br /> I don't see a problem if you base your development<br /> on the experimental releases linux-vserver does for<br /> 2.6.x as long as the software stays free ;)<br /> ''> Regarding how intrusive are changes - they probably are. We tried to''<br /> ''> create very good, highly isolated, high performance virtual environment''<br /> ''> that would sustain hosting environment. So we had to assume that inside''<br /> ''> each virtual server - there were "hostile" root users. I understand that''<br /> ''> it can break bunch of additional patches against vanilla kernel - yet,''<br /> ''> for us virtualization was more imported.''<br /> I would like to split this into three categories<br /> a) security features<br /> b) stealth features<br /> c) nice to have features<br /> although I prefer lightweight and non intrusive<br /> patches, I would not hesitate to do some intrusive<br /> modification to satisfy a) but not for b) and c)<br /> where they can still be supported as addons<br /> I also try to separate logic blocks and provide<br /> patches for each one, which actually allows easy<br /> portation and adaptation, and even removal of<br /> some components (was done for the iunlink part)<br /> ''> Regarding "patches are welcome" - it is not that easy. I cannot have my''<br /> ''> guys working on two projects. Thats why I want to be sure that''<br /> ''> a) There are enough interest in merging''<br /> ''> (aka finding compromises when necessary)''<br /> well, obviously there _is_ enough interest on your<br /> side, and as I pointed out several time, there is<br /> always interest on working together on my side,<br /> and I already made some compromises with Alex, we<br /> had quite some discussions regarding the interface<br /> on the irc channel, I don't know if he adhered that<br /> interface but for my part I tried where possible.<br /> ''> b) FreeVPS design strategies are ok for linux-vserver developers''<br /> hum, hum, that is something I can only reject.<br /> I'm not doing this project to follow some strategies<br /> figured out by some management of yours, to promote<br /> or sell your product more efficiently, and as I can't<br /> speak for the other developers, I would not commit<br /> myself to following some 'design strategies' at all<br /> so I would say, as long as your 'strategies' are okay<br /> for linux-vserver and linux-vserver strategies are<br /> okay for you, we can work together, if at some point<br /> that isn't true anymore, we part and everybody is fine<br /> ''> c) We can come up with a set of common goals, tasks and with a way to''<br /> ''> work together.''<br /> I'm all ears ...<br /> my suggestions for working together would be<br /> - have some discussions about the goals on ml or irc<br /> - separate and document the codebase (featurewise)<br /> - let the community decide about the strategy<br /> best,<br /> Herbert<br /> ''> Regards,''<br /> ''> Igor Seletskiy''<br /> ''>''<br /> ''>''<br /> ''> Herbert Poetzl wrote:''<br /> ''> >n Thu, Jan 29, 2004 at 04:34:00PM -0500, Igor Seletskiy wrote:''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >>Hi Herbert,''<br /> ''> >>''<br /> ''> >>My name is Igor Seletskiy. I own psoft (maker of freeVPS). I wander what''<br /> ''> >>are your thoughts about merging linux-vserver & freeVPS?''<br /> ''> >>I believe at some points freeVPS is more advanced then linux-vserver''<br /> ''> >>(like our new memory accounting module, new network routing, also, &''<br /> ''> >>mount tables), on the other hand - I am pretty sure that there are bunch''<br /> ''> >>of places where linux-vserver is more advanced.''<br /> ''> >>I spun off freeVPS when Jacques virtually stopped releasing anything.''<br /> ''> >>Yet, seeing how linux-vserver took off - I wander what your feelings are''<br /> ''> >>about merging projects & working together.''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >I always tried to keep contact to Alexey Lyashkov, who,''<br /> ''> >if I'm not mistaken, started and maintains the vserver''<br /> ''> >branch, now known as freeVPS (I wonder if that information''<br /> ''> >is incomplete?)''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >I'm forwarding this to the mailing list, because I think''<br /> ''> >it is of interest for the community, and I hope you do not''<br /> ''> >take this as a personal offense (which isn't intended).''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >some facts (as I see them):''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> > - freeVPS has some features the current linux-vserver''<br /> ''> > implementation lacks (memory, networking, ...)''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> > - freeVPS is limited to a certain kernel (RH 2.4.18)''<br /> ''> > and distribution (RedHat 7.3) and I assume arch''<br /> ''> > (i386) too''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> > - the License of tools and kernel patches is not''<br /> ''> > obvious to me, although kernel patches basically''<br /> ''> > default to GPL''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> > - the changes freeVPS made to the RH kernel are very''<br /> ''> > intrusive and might introduce various issues which''<br /> ''> > need some reviewing and a lot of testing''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >my opinion:''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >I'm convinced that 'working together' in a well defined''<br /> ''> >way, and even 'merging' various parts, provided that they''<br /> ''> >are covered by an open and free license, could be very''<br /> ''> >beneficial for both projects, but I currently do not see''<br /> ''> >a simple way to do that (ideas welcome ;) ...''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >That said, I'm not convinced that it can't be done, it''<br /> ''> >just needs some work on both sides and especially some''<br /> ''> >official statements from your side, what how and why''<br /> ''> >psoft is/will be involved in this (well there is a''<br /> ''> >commercial product H-Sphere, right?)''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >btw, linux-vserver development is free, and as I said''<br /> ''> >many times, patches are always welcome, so if your aim''<br /> ''> >is to 'improve' the quality of a free linux-vserver''<br /> ''> >implementation, publishing patches agains recent dev.''<br /> ''> >versions would be a great way to do that ...''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >Now here is the point, where I would like to ask the''<br /> ''> >community for their opinion on that issue, because I''<br /> ''> >might be the current project leader, but the project''<br /> ''> >itself has evolved and become a community project.''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >best,''<br /> ''> >Herbert''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >>Best Regards,''<br /> ''> >>Igor Seletskiy''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> >''<br /> ''> _______________________________________________''<br /> ''> Vserver mailing list''<br /> ''> [mailto:Vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org?Subject=Re:%20%5BVserver%5D%20future%202.6%20development%20... Vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org]''<br /> ''> http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver''<br /> _______________________________________________<br /> Vserver mailing list<br /> [mailto:Vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org?Subject=Re:%20%5BVserver%5D%20future%202.6%20development%20... Vserver_at_list.linux-vserver.org]<br /> http://list.linux-vserver.org/mailman/listinfo/vserver<br /> ----- * '''Previous message:''' [[0256.html|Berk Ülsoy: "[Vserver] debian kernel sources 2.4.24 - vs1.24 ??"]] * '''In reply to:''' [[0248.html|Igor Seletskiy: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] * '''Next in thread:''' [[0259.html|Igor Seletskiy: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] * '''Next in thread:''' [[0252.html|Alex Lyashkov: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] * '''Reply:''' [[0259.html|Igor Seletskiy: "Re: [Vserver] future 2.6 development ..."]] <div align="center"> {| class="wikitable" border="2" width="100%" |- ! [[../|About this list]] ! [[date.html|Date view]] ! [[index.html|Thread view]] ! [[subject.html|Subject view]] ! [[author.html|Author view]] ! [[attachment.html|Attachment view]] |} </div> <div align="center"> [<nowiki/>[[../|Next/Previous Months]]] [<nowiki/>[http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/miscprj/s_context.hc Main vserver Project Homepage]] [<nowiki/>[http://www.solucorp.qc.ca/mlist/index.hc?list=vserver Howto Subscribe/Unsubscribe]] [<nowiki/>[http://www.paul.sladen.org/vserver/ Paul Sladen's vserver stuff]]<br /> <span class="small">Generated on Fri 30 Jan 2004 - 18:57:27 GMT by [http://www.hypermail.org/ hypermail 2.1.3]</span> </div>
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